What are people's opinions about keeping one cocker outside iin a kennel and run on it's own?

I already have 2 working cocker bitches, aged 5 and 7. The 7 year old is quite laid back and gets on well with other dogs. The 5 year old is very sensitive, excitable and gets quite nervous about some things. She is not at all sociable with other dogs, tending to snap at them if they get too close to her.

I only started getting into training them as gundogs after I got the younger one. I didn't know anything about training gundogs to work until I got her. As a result I made a lot of mistakes with them and am certain a lot of the younger ones nervousness is due to me being unsure of what I was doing. As a result of my mistakes, I cannot actually work them (pick up or beat). But I have now learned so much and would really love to put what I have leant into practice by training another one.

However, I did try getting a puppy about 18 months ago. I tried integrating the puppy into the household, but found the younger dog got very nervous about it and kept picking fights with the older one. And they were dreadful! Neither would back down and both caused each other some nasty puncture wounds (and expensive vet's bills!). Not to mention the injuries I got trying to separate them! There were other circumstances at the time which made it all very difficult and in the end, after about 3 months, I reluctantly decided to find another home for the puppy. And gave up any hope of having another dog until one or both of these passed on.

A lot ot of things have now changed. I relaxed, learnt a lot more. I now understand so much more about dog psychology and how to be a pack leader. Both dogs now respect me much more than they did then. The urge to train another dog has grown even stronger. So I have started looking into what barriers there are against this and trying to find solutions to them.

One solution that woiuld hopefully mean my current dogs would not fight would be to keep the new dog outside in a kennel in a separate part of the garden. My current dogs have a kennel and spend nights and time when I am not at home or when I am busy out there quite happily.

I have an area of the garden that is fenced off from the main garden where the current kennel is. The new dogs kennel would have a slightly bigger run and I be able to let it out in this area of the garden.

What does everyone think of this?

Would it be fair to keep it in a kennel on it's own? Has anyone else been in this situation?

Has anyone got any other advice?

Lots of people just have one dog whether kept inside or out, however, the new pup may see the other dogs a whine to go and join in. If the older bitch is ok with others dogs, I would probably let her socialise and mix with the pup and keep the other one seperate.

You do get sme dogs that never get on, you may find that the pup has a different temperaments and doesn't clash with your middle one, you never know.

The only other thing is that it may make your life more difficult having to segregate one of them, but it may not!

I can't comment on the kennel aspect of your question as we don't kennel our dogs at all but I agree with what Ali says about some never getting on together.  Our dogs live in the house at all times so it is important that they all get on well together.  However, we have had similar experiences to yours when introducing a new pup to the household.  Our oldest, Barney, sounds very similar to your younger girl.  He, too, is very sensitive and nervy and he can become very unhappy if a new member is added to the pack which he is, for whatever reason, fearful of.  Initially, we got a new pup as company for him when he was 7 months old.  Rightly or wrongly we felt that having another dog of a similar age might be good for him and would help to make him feel a bit braver.  We took him with us when we visited our new pup before bringing him home and we noticed that Barney tended to hide in a corner when the pup was brought in. We thought he was just overawed with the situation. Wrong!  As soon as we brought the pup home it started attacking him biting lumps out of him.  Barney didn't retaliate at all. He was terrified!  Rather than help him with his nervousness it made him much worse and it was clear that the two of them would never get on.  The pup was very outgoing (good) but dominant (bad) and Barney was reduced to a quivering wreck in no time at all so much so that he refused to come into the house until the pup was caged.  With a very heavy heart we returned the pup.  Eventually we got Sandy (pictured left) who got on like a house on fire with Barney from the start and this time what we were hoping for happened.  Barney started relying on Sandy for moral support and they became great friends.  If Barney was fearful for any reason Sandy sensed it and stuck with him.  As a result, Barney is a very different dog nowadays - friendly and outgoing -  and it's difficult to believe he was ever anything else.  We realised that Barney was a very good indicator of a pup's temperament so we took him along when went to pick Amber.  He took to her straight away and we knew she would be right for us.  She's a sweetie! She's the boss but very gentle too.  Unfortunately, we didn't have the opportunity to test him out with our next bitch before we brought her home and he has always given her a wide berth. He clearly dosen't feel comfortable in her presence and would never be in the same room as her. With our youngest, he took to her straight away and she has proved to have a superb temperament.

As your younger bitch seems to be the sticking point why not take her with you when you go to look at pups and see how she reacts with each of them.  If she seems happy with any, take one of them and it should be OK.  However, if she is clearly unsettled with any pup, steer well clear.  That way, hopefully, you will be able to add a pup that your younger girl can accept and live in peace with. Good luck!

Many thanks for replying!

I would intend to allow the older dog to spend some supervisded time with the puppy.

Elspeth,  I see what you mean.  The trouble is the younger one (Florence) will try to ignore other dogs if she can.  But tell them, in no uncertain terms, to leave her alone if they try to socialize with her.  The older one (Mabel) is the only dog she interacts with.  And she calls the shots in their relationship.  If she feels like playing she will get Mabel to play, but if Mabel then gets a bit too excited, she doesn;t know how to react, backs off, comes to me and looks at Mabel as if she has gone mad.

We have been meeting up with a couple of friends to do some training lately.  Perhaps if I tried to get her walking alongside one of the other dogs and gradually closed the distance between them she might get the idea that being close to another dog is not that bad.

Any ideas?

I would be inclined to put plans to get another pup on hold until you resolve the issues with the other dogs ( I know you may not want to and its entirely up to you).  Have you considered trying to remedy some of the issues you feel you created with the younger dog as regards your training.  In your shoes, I would be keen to spend time with a trainer and work to give the dog back her confidence before moving on to another puppy.  It may be that your reaction (perhaps you've reassured the dog) to the dog's own reaction have reinforced the anxiety she may have.   Whatever you choose to do I wish you luck and every success. 

I am certainly no expert as I don't work mine in the field, but have worked with rescue dogs who have various anxieties all my adult life.  My vet and a trainer friend of mine say that what a dog has and lives with is what they are used to ie. they accept their lot.  I rewarded myself after 20 years of volunteering, learning & taking on rescues, with my first ESS pup, followed by my cocker pup. When I had the springer we went to classes and tried flyball and other classes and left my very badly behaved rescue dog at home (a collie cross who I must add was burnt all over his face with fags when I got him so understand his predicament) and he was used to it in a very short while.  As long as dogs are looked after, exercised, stimulated in accordance with the breed and fed correctly then they accept their lot effectlively as long as you are calm and relaxed about it  so will they.  Others in a working environment may be able to offer much more help I hope.

good luck

I cannot coment on the dogs not getting on with each other as I have never experienced it with working cockers. I currently keep around 10 cockers and regularly have others visiting for training or boarding and never have a problem is this, perhaps because I don't expect a problem?

My dogs spend their nights in the kennels and are regularly switched into different kennels with other dogs. Then during the day they run loose together in the yard. When a new dog arrives I just put it in the yard and there are no problems.

What I am trying to say is that I dictate where each dog spends its nights and who with and the dogs just have to accept it because I am the pack leader. They get mixed around and when I have an odd number someone is left on their own.

If you put one dog in a kennel on it's own then so be it. I find that only kenneling certain dogs together leads to problems of dogs relying on each other and fretting if left on their own which can happen if one has to stay in at the vets etc.