just wanting to ask fellow dog lovers whats ya feelng on pulling dog ears to the extent that they are picked up and spun round and told to sit becauese they have moved? i witnessed this on a shoot last season and still to this day wish i had said something knowing i would get a gobfull, one beater did this to 2 of his dogs a lab and a springer and both dogs yelped:( it was my first season beating and didn't know the bloke but nobody else said owt which i find hard to believe, maybe it me being too soft with my dogs:/

No I don't think your too soft with them, if you have to torture your dogs to train them, then IMO your a prat trainer. I also witnessed this a couple of years ago and i was very upset as I did know the cocker who was being swung round. I did say something to the owner the next day, I did get a mouthfull but I'm glad I  said something. I think you'll find nobody wants to say anything they're too scared of upsetting anyone. I think you'll be happier with your self if you say something.

In my opinion physical abuse of this kind is absolutely unforgivable. Not only unforgivable but totally unnecessary too. It tells me a great deal about the handler and his lack of understanding of how dogs learn and the sort of character he is! I have seen things like this too and it is difficult sometimes to be in a position whereby you can say something without running the risk of being floored - as usually the person dishing out such treatment to his dogs is out of control. It may be possible to say something at a later date - something like 'would you mind if I ask why you twisted your dogs ears  the other day'?
Physical abuse of this kind has no place in dog training but I would like to add that I do believe in being able to say 'no' to a dog but I would hope my own dogs were sensitive enough to my wishes that if I spoke harshly to them they would take notice. They do.
Unfortunately this type of human behaviour takes place every day of the week in dog training. Its called 'dog breaking'.

You will find that these people will come back year after year punishing their dogs in the same manner because it doesnt work!!!!, Its a sign of ignorance IMO!!! I cant keep my mouth shut, ive seen some cruel people in my time with dogs and will not stand for it, it has however not gone down well with some as they think I know nothing BUT anyone who is seen on our shoots being cruel to a dog is told not to come back!!!

I'm with Carol,  sometimes you have to stick your head above the parapet and voice your opinion.  The dog can't speak for itself.  Yes, it may be uncomfortable for you but usually people regret more what they didn't do in life rather than what they did. 

Bankie at April 8, 2011 at 4:00 PM

I'm with Carol,  sometimes you have to stick your head above the parapet and voice your opinion.  The dog can't speak for itself.  Yes, it may be uncomfortable for you but usually people regret more what they didn't do in life rather than what they did. 

Direct confrontation may also make matters worse - for the dog!! If a person is already out of control, rather than hit you they may well take it out even more on the dog (when you are not around). Whilst direct action makes the person taking the action feel better it is not always the best thing to do re the welfare of the dog. Voicing an opinion is not always the wise or best action. Talking to or questioning the person when tempers have calmed down may help and may make that person think twice before they 'lose it' again. On a shoot the best action to take is to tell the keeper. I have done this.

Mary, I will agree to differ with your opinion.:)  I think it unlikely that speaking up will increase the abuse the dog receives behind doors, if a person is willing to publicly abuse the dog in this manner, I am sure worse already goes on.  Speaking up whether that be to the person, the gamekeeper or other relevant bodies is still the course of action I would choose - standing back and doing nothing is abdication of  my responsibility to the dog.  I am certain we all have the dog's welfare at heart.  As the saying goes ' evil prevails when good men(or women) do nothing'

Mary, I aint afraid of direct confrontation and have been known to flatten a grown man on his back for battering a dog and I will do it again!! There is NO need to severley punish any dog!! However I will chatise my lot if need be and treat them like I would if I had kids... Slipper to the arse and all that.. Otter is a glaring example, he will on occassions ride rough shot over me and if I dont get a grip of him under the jowls and have a severe word with him eye to eye he would carry on taking the P!! He knows better and a swift reminder to behave is all it needs,, its not often mind you

carol at April 8, 2011 at 4:37 PM

Mary, I aint afraid of direct confrontation and have been known to flatten a grown man on his back for battering a dog and I will do it again!! There is NO need to severley punish any dog!! However I will chatise my lot if need be and treat them like I would if I had kids... Slipper to the arse and all that.. Otter is a glaring example, he will on occassions ride rough shot over me and if I dont get a grip of him under the jowls and have a severe word with him eye to eye he would carry on taking the P!! He knows better and a swift reminder to behave is all it needs,, its not often mind you

t jack at April 8, 2011 at 5:03 PM

carol at April 8, 2011 at 4:37 PM

Mary, I aint afraid of direct confrontation and have been known to flatten a grown man on his back for battering a dog and I will do it again!! There is NO need to severley punish any dog!! However I will chatise my lot if need be and treat them like I would if I had kids... Slipper to the arse and all that.. Otter is a glaring example, he will on occassions ride rough shot over me and if I dont get a grip of him under the jowls and have a severe word with him eye to eye he would carry on taking the P!! He knows better and a swift reminder to behave is all it needs,, its not often mind you

Is a slipper to the but really needed?? If I seen you do that I'd report you to the RSPCA !!! 

RSPCA , now there's another topic  Its the SSPCA where I live  Slipper to the arse was and is a fragment of speech and is how I was raised, my parents never raised a hand or a slipper to me but it was the threat /look and tone of voice  however trying to find a slipper in this house is impossible as the dugs have chewed them

t jack at April 8, 2011 at 5:27 PM

I was joking 

I know

Bankie at April 8, 2011 at 4:36 PM

Mary, I will agree to differ with your opinion.:)  I think it unlikely that speaking up will increase the abuse the dog receives behind doors, if a person is willing to publicly abuse the dog in this manner, I am sure worse already goes on.  Speaking up whether that be to the person, the gamekeeper or other relevant bodies is still the course of action I would choose - standing back and doing nothing is abdication of  my responsibility to the dog.  I am certain we all have the dog's welfare at heart.  As the saying goes ' evil prevails when good men(or women) do nothing'

 

 

It isnt 'an opinion' its fact; that when people who are already out of control are confronted the situation often gets worse - and in this case it could get worse for the dog. Yes, of course anyone who does this in public is probably  doing it in priivate but at the time - I say again - what good does it do for the dog? None. It only makes the person who is speaking up feel better. Action needs to be affective and In my particular case having told the keeper the person was not allowed back on the shoot. Does that change things for his dogs? No it doesn' but - as he suffered the consequences of his actions it may, just may make him think twice before doing it again. You infer I did nothing. I did, and the keeper took appropriate action - with no doubt appropriate words to the person involved! 

pulling a dogs ears is a major sign of a poor handler who hasnt taught the dog the commands correctly, i really hate to see it done..

I need to be a better trainer and have better dogs, that way I hope to show by example.

thanks for the replies, not keep quiet next season cos its still bugging me after a few months, got a feeling i'm gonna start a right argument but who cares, can't believe i didn't say anything back then cos i'm normally gobby and speak my mind but with being new to the shoot i thought best not...........BRING IT ON ...........:D

I think i would say something, at the very least to the keeper.  I just dont see how pulling a dogs ears teaches it to sit still???  If someone did that to me I'd MOVE AWAY from them!!

My view on "ear pulling " as you describe it is simple - barbaric!

It takes courage though to criticise another handler.  I was at a trial a couple of years back and a very experienced and well known pro-traininer (who shall be nameless) whacked his dog with his stick!  Another handler told him exactly what he thought of this in no uncertain terms.  Did it do any good?  Sadly I doubt it.

Human temper and dog work do not always mix, and there have been times when I've been worked up both in training and when shooting with Ollie.  Deep breaths to calm me down and if needed verbal admonishment to the dog are the answer.

I agree Neill, it is normally an outlet for the handlers anger and I count myself in that statement.  I have learnt over the years that you are better off not training or working your dog at all if you are in strop.  It rarely helps!

Although I do confess, I grabbed Yogi's ear this morning as he nicked a piece of cat poo out of the litter box when I was cleaning it out!!  It was the easiest thing to get hold of before he had a little snackette!!  Dirty little bugger.

Danalimatt Gundogs at April 11, 2011 at 4:48 AM

I agree Neill, it is normally an outlet for the handlers anger and I count myself in that statement.  I have learnt over the years that you are better off not training or working your dog at all if you are in strop.  It rarely helps!

 

Although I do confess, I grabbed Yogi's ear this morning as he nicked a piece of cat poo out of the litter box when I was cleaning it out!!  It was the easiest thing to get hold of before he had a little snackette!!  Dirty little bugger.

Oh ...................................................... he was only helping his mummy. Sometimes a pull or a smack or the threat thereof will instantly stop a bad behaviour in it's tracks, that is one thing but to use punishment as a way of so called chastisement after the event is quite another.