In gundog training, It seems common with some folks to teach a dog to jump fences, then over a fence for a retrieve.

I realize if one lives in an area with fences or stone walls or other obsticles, water and so on, that this would be important for the dog to do all this in stride to collect the game shot.

But are there other benefits to incorprating jumping fences and sending a dog over a fence for a retrieve if one doesn't run  into this situation while actually out roughshooting.

I'm thinking in the way of building confidence in young dogs.  Is it a confidence builder, as well as keeping things interssting, to utilize fences, water, and other obsticles.         

mike

I don't let my dogs jump fences because of the risk of injury.

Bramble,,,,I don't either since fences around here are barb wire.  I was thinking during the training with dummys and using wire mesh netting type of set-up with a rail board on top of the fence. 

I have a couple of small training fences wooden frame with rabbit wire in the middle . i belive in training for whatever you may meet in the field. I think the dog gains confidence in the training . I started getting him over fallen trees then over training fences its still ongoing but we are getting there.

However i take Bramble Monkeys  point, yes training them is putting them in harms way but if its a choise of him getting over the fence knowing how to aproach it or just giving it a go i will go for the trained dog.

Regards Gavin.  

The dreaded fences  I hate my dogs having to jump any fence. Mine are all trained to jump on command but the majority of time they go under or through fences rather than over the top. I stopped going back to one shoot as the fences were horrendous. I train using my dry stain dykes and getting in and out the car for jumping :-))

My cocker will jump over walls but "touches down" as he goes over.Regarding that horrible barbed wire - he usually wriggles under it as he knows it hurts! I taught him to be wary by saying "STEADY" to get his attention and slow him down.He will jump it if I put my leg on top of the wire (or my beaters flag). On the other hand he dives head first into brambles and thorn bushes! Typical cocker!

GAVIN at February 13, 2011 at 10:45 AM

I have a couple of small training fences wooden frame with rabbit wire in the middle . i belive in training for whatever you may meet in the field. I think the dog gains confidence in the training . I started getting him over fallen trees then over training fences its still ongoing but we are getting there.

However i take Bramble Monkeys  point, yes training them is putting them in harms way but if its a choise of him getting over the fence knowing how to aproach it or just giving it a go i will go for the trained dog.

Regards Gavin.  

thanks everyone for the replys, all really good points.

Gavin your comments brought it home, "training for whatever you may meet in the field" tailoring what I do to my enviroment using the local landscape, in my case using fallen trees/logs, streams, ravins, hedgerows and the ideas can go on.   

I'm starting to smell Spring, now I have to get rid of this 2ft. of snow.    

mike

I try not to encourage dogs to jump fences.  As our last springer was a working dog tarined and owned by someone we knew and she jumped a fence and pulled her back leg on pig wire.  She screamed and just ran (struggled home), fortunatley the vet popped it back in, but she couldn't work any more or have pups, so we had her.  Meg wouldn't jump anything higher than 2" high and had to be lifted over everything, so I'm alaways wary of fences, probably thousands of dogs who jump fences every day without a problem, but I would rather err on the side of caution.  Marc 

I hate barbed wire fences.  I'd never ask Ollie to jump one, but you still need to be careful, I've noticed he will sometimes go between the lower and the top strand, caution is essential.

Neill at February 14, 2011 at 2:49 AM

I hate barbed wire fences.  I'd never ask Ollie to jump one, but you still need to be careful, I've noticed he will sometimes go between the lower and the top strand, caution is essential.

Whilst we do not teach or allow our dogs to jump barbed wire if a dog is going to be an effective partner in the shooting field or compete in trials it has to cross obstacles on command.  These can be rabbit fences without barbs, walls, dykes, becks and rivers etc etc.   If you have control, the dog is trained properly and you handle it properly you can choose which obstacles the dog crosses and hopefully prevent accidents.  If the dog knows how to jump at least is has a chance of  doing it without hurting itself.   A lot of the dogs I have seen injured by wire are ones that have been out of control and have tried to jump wire, often out of sight of the handler.  Control and training is vital for the dogs safety.

Fiona   

Fiona

Ollie is always under control when off the lead and is trained properly!

Andy & Fiona at February 14, 2011 at 3:11 AM

Neill at February 14, 2011 at 2:49 AM

I hate barbed wire fences.  I'd never ask Ollie to jump one, but you still need to be careful, I've noticed he will sometimes go between the lower and the top strand, caution is essential.

Whilst we do not teach or allow our dogs to jump barbed wire if a dog is going to be an effective partner in the shooting field or compete in trials it has to cross obstacles on command.  These can be rabbit fences without barbs, walls, dykes, becks and rivers etc etc.   If you have control, the dog is trained properly and you handle it properly you can choose which obstacles the dog crosses and hopefully prevent accidents.  If the dog knows how to jump at least is has a chance of  doing it without hurting itself.   A lot of the dogs I have seen injured by wire are ones that have been out of control and have tried to jump wire, often out of sight of the handler.  Control and training is vital for the dogs safety.

 

Fiona   

Fiona, quite agree that if a dog is taught to jump and will only jump if instructed, which I assume a responsible owner will select the safest place to go over.  Dogs that just jump are the ones as you say the more likley to get injured, thats what happened to our last springer before we got her.  Marc 

Neill at February 14, 2011 at 2:49 AM

I hate barbed wire fences.  I'd never ask Ollie to jump one, but you still need to be careful, I've noticed he will sometimes go between the lower and the top strand, caution is essential.

I think my original point may not have been clear.  Ollie has been trained to jump using the "over" command.  That said I will never ask him to jump a barbed wire fence.  If I need him to cross one then he goes under the wire.

However my word of caution relates to fences with two or perhaps 3 strands of barbed wire.  I've noticed that he will, on occasion go between the strands, for example if he's hunting a wood/field border with a fence and he hops through, he does not equate this to anything related to the "over" command and understandably so, in his eyes it's no different to skipping over a branch or similar.  When out either training or beating it is relatively simple to keep an eye on fences and where he is, being cautious and stopping him before he crosses.  The difficulty comes when walking up birds with a gun, here ones concentration is of necessity divided between muzzle awareness, dog awareness and bird awareness (in that order),  a rusty strand of barbed wire is easy to miss.  Hence I'm urging caution to all, no matter how well trained you believe your dog to be, they do not know the inherent dangers of barbed wire.

Neill at February 15, 2011 at 3:52 AM

Neill at February 14, 2011 at 2:49 AM

I hate barbed wire fences.  I'd never ask Ollie to jump one, but you still need to be careful, I've noticed he will sometimes go between the lower and the top strand, caution is essential.

I think my original point may not have been clear.  Ollie has been trained to jump using the "over" command.  That said I will never ask him to jump a barbed wire fence.  If I need him to cross one then he goes under the wire.

 

However my word of caution relates to fences with two or perhaps 3 strands of barbed wire.  I've noticed that he will, on occasion go between the strands, for example if he's hunting a wood/field border with a fence and he hops through, he does not equate this to anything related to the "over" command and understandably so, in his eyes it's no different to skipping over a branch or similar.  When out either training or beating it is relatively simple to keep an eye on fences and where he is, being cautious and stopping him before he crosses.  The difficulty comes when walking up birds with a gun, here ones concentration is of necessity divided between muzzle awareness, dog awareness and bird awareness (in that order),  a rusty strand of barbed wire is easy to miss.  Hence I'm urging caution to all, no matter how well trained you believe your dog to be, they do not know the inherent dangers of barbed wire.

 

 

I  generally stay away from the barbed stuff, but one tme, several years ago, I had a cocker, that wasn't going to go thru the barb wire, but I got her too close to it and her ear wrapped around the bottom strand on a barb.:o

as soon as she got near the fence it was like cotton stick'n to a biar patch.:lol:

Lucky, I was very close and she had the good sense to stop and remain calm, I was sweatin buttlets about everything remaining calm , as I kneeled down beside her and put her on my lap, to not only keep her calm but to raise her height to relieve the tenion pulling on her hear flap, as I unwrapped the ear off the wire and barbs.

mike

sorry looks like my face is laughing, I meant for that to be a face of shear terror!

Mike

Certainly in South East England you cannot really avoid barbed wire, it's as liberally employed here as it was on the Somme!  What really infuritates me is the amount of derelict fencing you get, posts long rotted away lying down with the barbed stuff only evident on close inspection.

I've posted this story before, but it's worth repeating.  Back in autumn 2009 we were in Devon and Ollie was working a laid hedgerow.  This must have been hundreds of years old and was very dense, and too my amazement he climbed up internally onto the top of it.  I was actually amused and called him, only then did I see that along the top corner of the hedge was a strand of barbed wire.  Fortunately he was fine, but what an absolutely pointless piece of wire.

Neill I know what you mean, occassionally I run into similar situations, old fencing half buried in the undergrowth or leaves. If I hunt the area often I'll pick some of the junk up.

 Another thing is old dumps found in the woods, piles of glass bottles and old tin cans. It must have been common years ago for people farmers and alike to throw junk into a pile in some out of way place.

When I bought my house in the countryside 3 years ago, a 20 arce ranch ontop of a hill over looking the valley, I had to remove alot of old rusty barb wire in my woodlot bording my field, as well as cleanup a pile of old glass bottles.  Funny, no matter how well I think I got it all cleaned, there's days were I'll find a bit more.       

Wow! Reading all of your comments is a cautionary lesson for me!  As you can see, I have a very agile yellow lab who jumps well, but like all of you, I hate barbed wire!  Last time we were out and hunting a wounded bird he jumped a fence of his own volition (not barbed), but I will redouble my efforts to ensure that he only jumps on my command.  I will also be extra vigilant when I get a cocker!

Why do confirmed non jumpers always jump barbed wire fences?

I have to say I completely agree with Fiona, I thing it is an important part of any dogs training to be taught to jump obstacles, after all is it not part of the spaniels job to be able to retrieve from places we might not be able to get to ourselves? Of course barbed wire should be avoided at all costs, but I like to see dogs to be able to jump safe obstacles and should you unexpectedly come across a dangerous fence or obstacle then your stop whistle tends to come in handy.

Mike