Our dog is 9 months and is fairly good (!) on the recall, 'hupping' ,heelwork etc but shows little or no interest in retirieving.................we have just started the Gun Dog Club Grade 1 lessons and wonder if anyone out there has any ideas?

Indoors, she will retrieve a dummy, socks, slipper etc no problem, but as soon as we go outside all her interests are focussed on hunting.

The daily walk does give her a lot of free time running like a mad thing in the woods, and this is why I am sure she would rather do that than show any interest in collecting a dummy for us.

During the walk she will recall, heel, sit up and remain still for fairly long periods but she really is doing this waiting for a release command to tear off and hunt!

We have been advised (rightly I am sure) to try and get her interested in something in the house that we can then take outside and develop into a retrieve - anyone got any magic answers?

Thanks

This is not uncommon in WCS, the urge to hunt being very strong.  Look on the positive side, it's easier to solve than a lack of hunting instinct.

I'd suggest you stop the walks where she's allowed to hunt at will for the time being.  Nice boring mown grass rather than woods.  Focus on getting her to retrieve anything she likes, socks whatever, when she's out with you.  Very short retrieves and lots of fuss when she get's it right, gradually increasing distance.  It may take a few weeks.

Only when she is doing this regularly go back into woods and cover, and when you do get her to heel, retrieve and then a minute or two hunting as a reward, then back to heel.  Several short sessions will be better than one long one, but I appreciate this is not always practical.

I'd not worry, for a 9 month old pup you seem to be doing well, the fact she retrieves indoors proves she has the instinct so she will grasp it sooner rather than later.

hatjoepeg at January 19, 2011 at 2:37 AM

Our dog is 9 months and is fairly good (!) on the recall, 'hupping' ,heelwork etc but shows little or no interest in retirieving.................we have just started the Gun Dog Club Grade 1 lessons and wonder if anyone out there has any ideas?

Indoors, she will retrieve a dummy, socks, slipper etc no problem, but as soon as we go outside all her interests are focussed on hunting.

The daily walk does give her a lot of free time running like a mad thing in the woods, and this is why I am sure she would rather do that than show any interest in collecting a dummy for us.

During the walk she will recall, heel, sit up and remain still for fairly long periods but she really is doing this waiting for a release command to tear off and hunt!

We have been advised (rightly I am sure) to try and get her interested in something in the house that we can then take outside and develop into a retrieve - anyone got any magic answers?

Thanks

Just wondering what does your Gundog Club Trainer advise?

He said go for the smelly sock technique, once she was happy with that then maybe move the sock onto the dummy etc.

To be fair to him, I didnt describe the way she is walked.

Neill's suggestions do seem very sensible........................unless anyone has a magic wand?

This is the reason I aim to teach the retrieving before the hunting, and my dogs never ever have free hunting.

Ollie is allowed free hunting, and generally having a good time as I believe it's important.  He has two commands which I've mentioned before; "off you go" means playtime, hunt, run, say hello to other dogs if you want, serious stuff is "find bunnies" which means hunt close to.  When he's doing this he's oblivious to other dogs and works from side to side on whistle command and hand direction.

The free hunting came first, it's basically a spaniel running about like they do, the close up stuff and going into deep cover came second and we did this by getting him to watch a trained Springer, something clicked and he's been into brambles ever since.

Of course his recall was perfected before any of this.

Must admit, I spent a lot of time with tank teaching his retreive before I left his hunt drive develop.

one way of developing a retrieve is to take an interesting toy (bit of sheepskin, rabbit fur etc) and fasten it to a string/line. At times when the dog is normally excited, get this toy out and flick the toy all over the place (along the floor/over the dog's head etc) putting loads of movement into it. Don't let the dog get it the first time.....I would do this for around 30 secs and then put the toy away without the dog haveing 'caught' it and before it gets bored.

later the same day, when the dog is again naturally excited (before walks/feed time etc.) get the toy out and put plenty of movement into it again, this time, let the dog 'win' the toy. Praise like mad all the time the dog has the toy in its mouth, let it 'swank' about for a bit and don't be too keen to take the toy off the dog. Then pu the toy away and repeat later in the day. Keep doing this over the next week, gradually building up the 'playtime' and the number of retreives the dog gets. Always stop when the dog is keen.

Once the dog is confidently fetching this toy, you cna then do a couple of retrieves with this toy, quickly swop for another toy and then go back to teh original. Gradually over time, doing more retrieves with the new toy. When the dog is happily retreiving the new toy, swap it for another. When you ahve the dog fetchign around 6 or so different toys. Repeat teh whole exercise in differing areas, with few distractions to begin with, then gradually adding more and more distractions.

When the dog will happily retrieve a variety of toys in different areas, then you can start and introduce a dummy. Once the dog is happily fetching dummies, you can then use a release to hunt as a reward for fetching the dummy back to you.

I've found this is a good way to get reluctant retreivers going.

HTH

I'm with Neill on this one - I did exactly the same with Coco, "walkies" first and then develop the hunting/retrieving instinct second.  I don't know if you have other dogs - I have a pack of 5, so they are all walked together for fun and to wear off energy, and then the spaniels go out separately for training, then they know they are working and we use whistle, hand signals etc.  The "smelly sock" routine sounds great - just find something the dog really likes and associates with fun/treats and practise at home with retrieving and then go to a different place without too many distractions and build up from there.  Remember, a technique learned at home is perfected at home and as soon as you change the location, smells, distractions etc. the technique must be practised all over again, starting small and working up just as you did at home.  Good luck!

I have the same problem with my weimar bitch, a gundog trainer told me start in the home with the special item then move onto a car park with no lovely smells. Unfortuantely for me the hunting instinct was already switched on as Missy didn't come to me untill she was 18mths old, she's now 4yrs old. I'm beginning to get her interested in the dummy now as like you I would like to do the gundog grade one for starters.

Good luck as plenty of good advice given please do post how you're getting on

Some dogs never grasp retrieving, Sue's mum had a lovely old rescue Collie cross called Sandy.  She was a lovely dog, but when you took her to the park and she knew you had her ball she'd bark and bark until you threw it.  She didn't run after it, oh no, she expected and would watch you do it, and when you bought it back start barking again!

As she got older and stiffer this was transferred to the lounge!

Funny things dogs:/

Ha .......... Training is a two way street  ...............................just seems there was more traffic on the Collies Cross's side.

Biut if she ahd collie traits Neill, she'd ahve been more interested in trying to round up the ball than she would have been in retreiving it

Pauline

She liked rounding up, no problems there!  It just used to make us laugh, the idea all she wanted was for us to throw and fetch the ball.  Still it's a good idea WCS don't think like that, imagine, a pheasant plummets into nettles or brambles and the dog's attitude is "you shot it, you get it"!

LOL!!!

Thanks everyone...................we do tend to take her out with the terrier so I think a combination of all of the above will be required...........except me diving into brambles!

Alfie is 8months old and has always been brilliant at coming back to the whistle, but just lately his hunting instinct seems to have really kicked in . He is ignoring me and tearing off after anything that moves, mainly pheasants. He finally returns and I'm not sure whether to scold him or do nothing as he did return after all ! He is tennis ball daft and would do anything for a ball. He is brilliant at finding it and retrieving it.   Sorry I have deviated from the retrieving topic but just wondered if anyone had any advice.  He is not food orientated so rewards don't work.   I really don't want to put him on the lead in the country.:)

i had this problem with mine, [ I was misadvised when she was a youngster not to do any retrieving with her which didnt help]

making the retreives more difficult or interesting so she had to 'hunt' it helped. Also throwing the dummy and not allowing her to pick it but getting it myself also made her more interested, i vary the retrieving item as much as poss and end a session with me retrieving the dummy so it is always a privelige for her. I deffo agree with retieving in more' boring' places,Sweep is such a keen hunter i struggled to keep her focused to begin with and  i am still working on retrieves where theres more scent and cover and have moved onto cold game to do so. good luck xx

ps audrey i would think about getting lessons with Alfie if u at all can it really helps a lot . Sweep started 'tearing' off as a youngster and its been a hard habit to rectify :roll:. He is still young and its best to avoid live stuff like pheasants till hes steady as its ther instinct to chase em unless they know otherwise. I am still learning though and thers a lot of people on here who will better inform you than i will xx

Thanks for your advice. I think I will find out about training in my area as he's a brilliant wee pup and I don't want to make a mess of training him. Sweep looks really good.

Audrey

Linzi's advice about having some lessons is very good, they will help.

The problem you have with Alfie is not uncommon, lets face it, it is what WCS are bred to do really.  You need to control it and I'd start by trying to walk him away from country smelling of game and with pheasants present - easier said than done I know.  Certainly do not scold him when he finally comes back, but don't overly praise him either.

Get the recall really sound, and start with the "no" command.  You can use this everytime he does something you don't want him to, and when it is drummed in try him when the temptation to chase is there.  He's a bit young for the stop whistle as yet, but this is a progression of "no" in many ways.

Ollie was not much older than Alfie when he took off in the woods one day and trotted back proudly holding a young rabbit.  I did not know whether to be cross or actually a bit proud that he'd caught it.  Anyway, I took it off him like a retrieve, told him to stay and gave the bunny a check over.  Then, when I let it go Ollie stayed put, but gave me a really withering look!!  They all chase sometimes, I know of a very succesful FTCH who took off one day after something and came back three hours later!  That said you need to work on the control, it will come I'm certain.