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| Forum Home > General Training, Tips and/or Tools > The Urban Gun-dog or Jack's Progress if you like..... | ||
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Member Posts: 310 |
I joined your forum for a specific reason. I have an urban Working Cocker- Jack. Jack Is 27 weeks old and is the palest of gold or 'lemon', hence his name Jack after Jack Lemmon the Hollywood legend. I wanted to make contact with others like me who are trying to produce a workable gun-dog from an urban environment. I have been asked to post his progress and this is the beginnings of it. First though a slight confession. What is an urban dog? Though I live in a town that is swallowed by a huge city, Jack is essentially an outdoor dog. He has not see my postage-stamp garden since his preliminary injections were completed. Though he is happy to be a family pet adored by the wife and (nearly grown-up) kids, he truly exists in the nearby hills and woodland of Clent. Jack has been in my car almost every single day since I had him, most days more than once. Furthermore, Jack has a good start in life via his breeding. He is a grandson of Dardnell Dealer which takes him back via the Maesydderwyn and Parkbreck lines (his colour comes from Creignant Mordred of whom he appears to be a clone) and on his Mom's side he goes back to the mighty Danderw Druid and others. In the hands of a professional trainer, I'm certain he would be a top-dog, but he does not have a professional- he has me. I have no training facilities as such. My training is done via walks over spectacular hills. Of course, some rudimentary skills have begun in the house but in short, I have to train on the 'go'. My source is the gun-dog broadsheets, but I find it immensely difficult if not impossible to isolate one particular skill or lesson from them in the environment I have to hand. I am taking a wider approach therefore. I DO take care not to overtrain Jack in elements that he is not ready for but equally I must accept that he will swim, jump, quarter and scent long before he should. At the same time I am not down-hearted especially if I can obtain your support. I have after all owned and trained a (non Gun) dog before and so far, Jack has thrilled me with his promise. He will recall by whistle and voice. He sits and is learning his STOP whistle and will retrieve a dummy to which he is rock-steady although his delivery to me is lacking for now. Meanwhile he hunts and swims and follows my basic hand signals simply because he knows more about being a gun-dog than I do. This is the starting point then. I will let you know how Jack gets on. | |
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Moderator Posts: 229 |
Do you hope to work Jack in the future? | |
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-- Milly M
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Posts: 366 |
Hi Keith Welcome to the forum and Jack looks to be a lovely dog who has obviously landed on his feet as regards his home! We are lucky to live where we do, surrounded by fields, woodland and moorland but that can prove to be a downside sometimes when training young dogs in that there is almost too much scent everywhere. Obviously you are restricted in the availability of ground to take him on but the work you are doing is perfect for him at this stage. The basics of their training can be done anywhere and especially with cockers it is sometimes better that they do not see too much too young anyway. The lure of a rabbit running off ahead of a youngster is a huge temptation for any dog and it is difficult to discipline a youngster for doing something that is basically a natural instinct. As has been mentioned somewhere else a lot can be done with a whistle in one hand and a good book such as Joe Irving's "Training Spaniels" in the other. Have fun with him Fiona | |
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Member Posts: 310 |
Milly, Fiona. Thanks for the rapid replies. Firstly, yes I do intend to work him now especially as he is showing so much promise. I confess, my own limited shooting experience is with clays and targets but I now feel I owe it to him. My 19 year old lad became a GB international in what most may consider a minority sport because someone identified his talent and we didn't want to deny him. We feel similarly about Jack although he was riginally to be a pet. His breeder, a true contryman rather than a 'breeder' drastically under-stated his potential I'm sure... Secondly, thanks for encouragement re training. I agree entirely and I will literally keep you posted! Thanks. | |
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Member Posts: 62 |
Are you unable to get to a local club? -most of these are on at weekends or on an evening outside of shooting the season - they are listed on the internet. We have found others support and guidance to be invaluable and worth travelling for. I do an 1hr20 round trip for one of the ones that I go to.
There are a couple of people that run 3 day intensive courses - usually in the Spring or Summer - maybe if, you are training alone then this would be an idea, for when he's a little older?
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Member Posts: 310 |
Poola, Hi. I'm not sure yet where my nearest club is. My son has just finished a junior international sports career- I thought I has done my time up and down the motorways... LOL Maybe, as you say, when Jack's a little older. He's had a couple of days 'playing' Om Clee Hill yesterday and Clent today with other dogs.... R'NR for us both LOL | |
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Member Posts: 310 |
Following on from my first post, I now give my first update on Jack's progress. I repeat that starting with an admittedly very well-bred pup, my aim is to produce a workable gun-dog from an apparently urban environment- despite no prior experience in this respect. My source is the broadsheets and my hope is that by joining WCOL I will find help and encouragement from both like minds and professionals alike. This happily has already been the case..... My pup's breeder, a trainer of many types of hunting dogs says that he wouldn't even begin to train a Cocker until it is 7 months old and it has lost much of what he calls its "puppy madness". He says it's like flicking a switch. One day they wake up with their proper Cocker head on and more or less ask to be trained. At that point it's easy, is the gist of how he put it. He said around this time, I would notice that Jack would constantly look to me for instruction and this would be the first sign that even I couldn't miss. Jack is now closing in on 7 months and having spent almost every day of my recent annual holiday out on the hills with him, I have to say I am indeed noticing that change. Jack now stays within the Cocker 'range' of around 15m from me almost all the time and feels compelled to check back and makes eye contact with me about every 30 seconds. I also notice that my tone of voice is now incredibly important to him. It may be subtle, but I now talk to him clearly, rather than shout in his direction and this in turn as I have read gives a whole new emphasis to my scolding tone. In teaching the beginnings of his stop whistle the other day, I had occasion to admonish Jack and return him to the scene of his transgression. The poor lad sat bolt upright and almost burst himself attempting to please me for the rest of the day. In response and to assist Jack further, I have decided to take my 'training method' to a new level also and attempt to be a little more methodical, professional if you like, rather than assessing him subjectively at the end of a nice walk. I will work on 3 of the basics for a month and record the progress Jack has made in each. Any other advanced abilities that I know Jack will inevitably display will simply be regarded as 'play' and not 'trained' in any formal way. The 3 areas are- 1. Recall by whistle. Jack's record since I adopted RULE 1 when he was about 14 weeks old, is 100% in this area over several 100'recalls. I intend for reasons of safety of my dog and discipline, for this ratio to be maintained. (Rule 1 is always to load the odds in the dogs favour. I never ask him to do anything where the chance of failure is greater than the chance of success). 2. Stop/Sit to whistle. To be fair, Jack is already beginning to sit to his whistle. He has sat by voice and hand-signal on or off-lead since he was tiny, but I need to extend the distance and turn the sit into a stop. 3. Retrieve. Jack is capable and even as a pup has performed on more than one occasion the most perfect of retrieves that even the most demanding professional on this site would be happy with- from steadiness to the throw, the outrun, pick-up and delivery to hand. He has even been accused of showing-off by onlookers. Unfortunately, in attempting to ingrain this potential I have inadvertently trained him to drop his dummy well short and even damage his enthusiasm just a little. Using tips I have gained on this forum I will take him back to very simple beginnings and correct this. As I write I have already begun to do so and Jack has delivered 5 of his last 6 dummies to my hand, the other to my feet. At the end of the month I will report back. I hope that Jack will have completed the early part of the broadsheet s by then and be well capable of the Grade One Test.
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Member Posts: 986 |
Keith
Seems like you are making steady progress, don't worry if sometimes you need to take a step or two backwards, it's all about patience and practice.
I love the idea of a Cocker "switch", wish I'd had one fitted to mine but it wasn't on the list of extras:lol: At two and a half Ollie has calmed down a bit it's true, but he still has his moments, the last couple of days for example. | |
--Every time I take my dog out for a lesson, he never fails to teach me something!!!!!!!Neill
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Member Posts: 310 |
Following-on from the previous post I am again reporting on Jacks progress as the 'Urban Gun-Dog'' in the making. I hope that by doing this, it will clarify my own thoughts, attract some useful and constructive advice and maybe help someone else who might be in a similar position to me. My WCOL 'friend' Gavin has coined the term 'Broken-Walk" for the type of training style I have little choice than to employ. I think in a single term, he has shown his understanding of the whole issue that I and others like me, face. My previous post described my intention to hone the very basics with Jack whilst accepting that during 'broken-walk' sessions he will inevitably display more sophisticated talents that I will now resist the temptation to 'train'. I will also be more analytical in my assessment of Jack's real progress rather than rely on my subjective and possibly rose-tinted eye. At the half-way point (-ish) of the month then, I'm glad to say steady progress (by the way, thanks Neill for your encouragement too) is being maintained in the three areas highlighted previously. Firstly, Jack's recall to his whistle despite everything else, remains faultless and the 'bond' between us grows daily. By this I don't mean his relationship with the family in the ordinary sense, I mean with me in the field. In many cases now, a simple word or even a look is enough to communicate. Without getting ahead of myself, I can see a huge value in this in the future. Secondly, the Sit to whistle/ Stop is improving. I now see that as the broadsheets warned, I had attempted to train this before I had taught Jack what was required. Now however, progress is being made and Jack will sit to a whistled command up to 20 yards the vast majority of the time. At this range he is inevitably moving, so the basics of 'stop' are also being ingrained too. I have also learned to combine recall with sit and stop and this will be a focus for the second-half of the month. Lastly and with your help, I have corrected the 'short-retreive' fault. Thank you WCOL. I have taken Jack back to a simple 'grade one' retrieve and with WCOL advice he has never since failed to deliver the dummy the full distance. His fault now is often (but not always by any means) to over-run me but crucially retain not drop the dummy. With gentle coaxing, he will always return to me and complete the job. Meanwhile, he remains perfectly capable of the text-book retrieve. On friday, despite the failing light and the worst of Midlands weather closing in, Jack delivered the three best dummies to me that he has ever done and sent me home wet but absolutely chuffed. We move on. The Urban Gun-dog lives....
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Member Posts: 11 |
Keith, I am following your reports with keen interest, Max will be 6 months old this week and we are on a similar path to yours (but not quite as far along), I like the phrase 'Broken-walk', it certainly captures the approach I am taking with Max. There are a couple of farms quite close to where we live, so in the evening, as soon as I get in, we jump in the car and drive to the bottom of the lane, we then have a 10 minute walk on the lead down the farm track (its a public right of way through his land but few people actually walk it), the public path then cuts through a number of his fields, the first is quite a large field he leaves to grass and runs right down to the river. I have chosen this as our training field. Other than the odd occasion he has been working the field to cut and bail the grass, its basically a wide open space, home to a few rabbit and the odd pheasant, bordered by hedegerow and a small wooded area. More importantly its very quiet. When we arrive at our 'training ground' Max will then sit while I take his slip lead off, and wait looking up at me until I release him with 'go on', I let him have 10 minutes to scout around and try and sniff every blade of grass before I call him in (to whistle) and then we have 10 minutes 'training', I then call him to heel and then release him with 'go on' to have a play for another 10 minutes, then call him in for 10 minutes 'training', we tend to finish at / in the river & make our way back to the car. The times are approximate but I am mindful not to work him in more than 10 minute slots, so he doesn't lose interest. The whole session is generally around an hour or so. Do you structure your training exercises into slots with Jack and if so what sort of duration do you work him, I've kind of locked in on 10 minutes, I can see Max ready for the next command or retrieve when I break it for play but I want to keep him keen. Our progress to date is, Max will, sit to voice and whistle, recall to voice and whistle, stay with voice and hand while I turn my back & walk away (20-25 feet), retrieve dummy to hand (on occassion drops at feet) 'work in progress'. Areas we are working on right now : - Steadiness to thrown dummy (this is a bit hit and miss and I'm not quite sure why), he sits to heel and his eye contact is on me, I will throw the dummy and he watches it, then looks to me, I tell him to 'Get it' he's away & makes the retrieve, smiles all round and praise. He does this on the first one & sometimes the second but not always, he will then bolt for the dummy as soon as its thrown or he will second guess my release command ie. lets me throw it, waits three seconds then goes. He still makes the retrieve so I don't want to correct him then, as that bits right, so I just end the exercise. I can't stop him mid retrieve as the other area we can't seem to make progress on; - The stop whistle. Max will sit to the whistle (single pip) promptly but he associates that 'pip' and the resulting sit only when he is by me, conversely when he is sat at a distance in the 'stay' command he associates the whistle, any whistle with recall. I am clearly missing a step in the process of training this skill but don't know what it is. If you can offer any suggestions on how you developed this with Jack it would be appreciated.
Congratulations on the progress you and Jack have made so far, from my experiences to date, even though it can be frustrating at times, I always return from our walks feeling that there were more positives than negatives, so overall its progress, small steps and all that. Look forward to your next update.
regards
Mark | |
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Member Posts: 310 |
Mark, Hi. Thanks for your post and thanks for joining this thread. After only a few short months of gun-dog training I couldn't possibly presume to give you any real advice. However, I am extremely keen to share experience with you and others like us- maybe that way we can all go forward together. From the introduction to you post it does seem that there is some similarity in our situations, not least our dogs, who are similar in age, looks and as we now know, share some common ancestors. I'm also glad that you can associate with the 'broken-walk' idea (Gavin should copyright it-LOL) however, your field "an open space home to a few rabbit and the odd pheasant bordered by hedgerow" is a description of heaven as far as I am concerned. I have nothing of the sort. Which in turn leads me in the direction of your first question. My typical training regime is a walk which starts at the foot of one of the local Clent Hills, goes over the peak and returns back to my car via a different route over the same peak. I will have in my mind at the outset, a small number of exercises that I wish to complete and will I simply 'break' my walk to incorporate them as I see fit. My source book is Eric Begbie's Broadsheets. In line with that, I attempt only 5 or 6 repetitions at any one time. I guess, the whole of my formal training would add up to less than 15 minutes per day. In the case of maintaining Jack's recall I simply have to step behind a tree as he turns a corner or take the right-hand fork after he has taken the left. In the case of his stop/sit to whistle, I simply await his eye contact after he has rummaged through a bush or emerged from a stream. in all cases though- RULE1, putting the odds in the dogs favour (see previous post)applies. I have seen Cocker owners burst their lungs on a whistle as their pup disappears into the distance to play with another pup he has found. They then turn and ask me why my dog recalls so much better than theirs. The truth is that I want to breed success and would never blow my whistle when my pup was so distracted- he probably wouldn't come back either! To me the beauty of the enforced 'broken-walk' style is that Jack having been taught a response in my house, barely notices it is subsequently being trained into him. To him, recall, sit, stay and fetch are just constituent parts of a natural hunt thought the countryside- a job he was born to do. He has rarely been 'trained' at the same spot twice and has no idea when training will begin or end, lest try to anticipate or manipulate it. This is the inherent danger of the idyllic 'field' (of Dreams-LOL) that your dog will eventually learn your regular routine and adapt it for his own ends. The words "second-guess" already appear in your post. My childhood dog, a mongrel was an excellent guard, loved by all, but was poor on discipline. However, on occasion he might win an obedience class. He had learned to pick certain triggers that guaranteed good behaviour would be rewarded with something he prized. I never knew that then- I do now. Predictability, is one of Eric Begbie's three pitfalls to avoid. It may pay to vary the training sessions to prevent this happening. In addition, we must realise (and I have the T-shirt on this) that what may be perfect in the garden, house or the training field may not happen at all on the hill, in the wood or indeed in the rain or the dark. I hope then that this is some help. It has been a lengthy post. I should perhaps address the other questions separately. all the best
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Moderator Posts: 229 |
I'm a novice cocker owner but my boys just two, hope you don't mind if I chip in a bit though I'm sure others with more experience will help if I give duff advice (hopefully lol).
My trainer has a saying, 'Train to win'. By that he means put yourself in the best possible postion to succeed and always end on a good note. e.g. If your dog runs in on a thrown dummy position yourself between the dog and the dummy to deter it, don't turn your back on the dog, even if in the early days you need to raise your arm/hand to encourage the sit, otherwise the dog succeeds in running in.
For the stop whistle at a distance he made me a 4 week training plan though of course it depends on the dogs progress how quickly you move on. If I remember right it went something like this - Week 1 was stop whistle on the lead. Week 2 was at a close distance. Week 3 was about a cars length away and so on, you get the picture. Good luck.
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-- Milly M
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Member Posts: 310 |
Milly, Brilliant! Brilliant! That is exactly what I had hoped for. Please, please chip-in. As it happens I was going to say something similar, so you have confirmed my thinking and given Mark the help he deserves! Two Novices with one stone........ I was about to write that I can only offer to share my limited experience. With regard to running-in on the dummy I have two thoughts. 1. Mark says he does not want to correct the dog- I most certainly WOULD. Strongly. Max via generations of gun-dogs is born to retrieve the dummy. He is bursting to do it. So he runs-in, retrieves and receives no censure and this repeats. He is being trained therefore to run-in. The trainer will see the retrieve as a failure, the dog eager to please will only see success and the habit will be steadily ingrained. He is even smart enough to 'sit' on the first dummy and get the 'wait' out of the way. 2. I was going to offer exactly the same help to Mark. Sit and stay the dog and walk ahead of him 7 or 8 yards. Place yourself between him and the proposed landing-site of the dummy. Throw the dummy from there. It is a brave dog who will run-in past his master in this scenario. You can then walk back to him and 'send' him in your usual way. 'Train to Win' is exactly right, like my RULE1. I'd rather have three correct recalls than 25 good ones and 5 bad ones. A small tip. When doing this, don't obscure the dog's view of the throw. I'm so foolish, I've done it a couple of times. The first time, I turned round to see my little lad craning so far over he looked like a canine tower of Pisa. He wore a look of utter disgust. The second time I did it, he ran-in, picked up the dummy and kept it, as if to say "is that the best you can do?". I've not made the mistake a third time. Regarding the sit/stop whistle again I concur with Milly. I'm still going through it with Jack. Sit in the house, sit outside, sit at 5 yards, sit at 10 yards. I've sat him at 20 yards recently. When this is 100% I will try to use it as a brake/stop- but not until..... (RULE1 again!). The other thing may be that Max is simply confusing the two signals. I use three pips for recall and a one-second blast for sit. They are quite different. I think I would concentrate on the recall whistle and now and then throw in a one or two note blast and see how he reacts. It may simply be a matter of perseverance and one day soon the penny will drop. I hope this has helped again. For the record, Jack has been poorly this week. His immune system is not as well developed as the rest of him,yet. Oddly it did not affect his desire to train until he began to recover. The last two days, he's been healthier, but useless. It's as if I'd never been out with him. Tonight, he seemed altogether more himself. Then I realised that for the first time since he was 10 weeks old, I'd forgotten his whistle. Training abandoned 3 days in a row. We spent 45 minutes retrieving an old tennis ball I had in my pocket. He was rock-steady mind and bright-eyed. He then chased a puppy or two in the near dark and we went home happy. The Urban Gun-dog returns......................
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Member Posts: 986 |
Regarding running in, I'd would not correct the dog when he brings the dummy back, it could put him off retrieving, muted praise maybe but certainly nothing in the way of admonishment.
Putting yourself twixt dog and dummy is the way to do it. | |
--Every time I take my dog out for a lesson, he never fails to teach me something!!!!!!!Neill
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Moderator Posts: 229 |
Agree with Neill, once the dog has the dummy no correction and not the usual praise when he comes back, until he reached the dummy however it's mine unless I told him othewrwise. I just read back and noticed though that Prestons cocker is only 6 months. I think stop whistle at a distance is moving too fast. Keep it simple, fun and close, he's only a pup, | |
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-- Milly M
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Member Posts: 986 |
The stop whistle at 6 months is definitely too soon (Ollie was well over 12months before we did this), some would say 6 months is too young for any serious training and I'm inclined to agree. Basic doggy good manners and very simple retrieves are enough for such a youngster. | |
--Every time I take my dog out for a lesson, he never fails to teach me something!!!!!!!Neill
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Member Posts: 11 |
Guys thanks for all your advice, Max and I appreciate it. I'll focus on steadying him up on the thrown dummy, recall etc and back off on the stop whistle, perhaps I am pushing him, we don't want to take one step forward and two steps back
Keith, I hope Jack is firing on all four cylinders again now.
Max was a little off this week also, he had an irritation with one of his ears on monday, he started shaking his head and scratching & when I looked it was a bit gunky with brown wax. I thought he may have picked up ear mites from the long grass (although I do use stronghold on him every month, as its supposed to prevent ear mites) however I cleaned both ears and put a pinch of Thornit in each ear, seems to have done the trick, happy boy again. Bit of a relief because if my wife thought he had mites of any description my wife would have kicked us both out in the shed.:P | |
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Member Posts: 310 |
Mark, Hi. What a shame to hear about your friends dog. He was a kind of mentor to Max as well, I imagine. My childhood dog (a mongrel guard-dog) lived for over 17 years- five after having tumour removed from which he was given little or no chance of recovery. Luck of the draw, I suppose. Even now, I find myself calling Jack by his name instead..... Sad way to end what sounded like an ideal, boys weekend. Regarding Jack's pedigree, I think I have some conversion programmes on my Mac. If not I will email it to you. Thanks for the kind offer. At the moment I'm collecting some pictures of Jack's 'ancestors' from the internet- I have about a dozen so far. We had an interesting weekend ourselves. After the successes of Thursday and Friday we came back down to earth with a bump on Saturday. I enjoyed my 'walk' enormously but testing Jack by breaking RULE1( we took a completely different route, walking almost an hour in thick woodland), he acted as though he had never heard the 'sit' command in any form..... (LOL-ish), ruining my professionally recorded stats, completely. He was less than committed to his dummy in addition, though his recall as ever remained utterly faultless. What caught my eye though following his recent illness was his general demeanor and physical well-being. He is beginning to 'want' to work- fearless in deep cover and water alike. On Sunday we went up Walton Hill, one of the less picturesque but quieter of the Clent Hills. There was a beautiful distant view of the Malverns from the top (the latent photographer in me) and it marked our return to more open countryside. Walton Hill is crossed with tracks bordered by long grasses and brush and is 'cocker-training' heaven. Jack re-engaged his selective hearing and in terms of sit and recall, normal service was resumed. He was still however, a little tetchy with respect to his small dummy. Despite me finding a perfect 'lane' he was hardly inspired until I threw the dummy over the nearest cover onto the next track (so he couldn't see it). His outrun then included a sharp right-hand turn out of sight and he then returned the dummy with relish. Twice. Food for thought........? On the way back he hunted with great drive. I'm very careful NOT to over-train him in areas he's not ready for with respect to the 'broadsheets' and so I simply direct him and send him with simple hand gestures and voice. It's more about establishing relationship and keeping control than anything else. Jack though is noticeably coming to himself as the racehorse trainer would say. He's not yet the finished article, but he really is beginning to grow into himself and he now attacks his 'work' with attitude to spare. The 'Dog Days' (of summer) are over and my boy is ever so slowly turning into a man. Perhaps his breeder was right after all. He is 7 months old tomorrow. Upon recall, he now closes-in really tight to me. It's not puppy fear of the unknown, nor is it 'master and servant'. In my opinion Jack thinks it's a team-game and he really wants to be on the team. Lastly, on the way over the final brow, Jack found a thick black hill-walkers sock. I took it from him but had a mischievous thought, as he had played with something similar when he was poorly. I rolled it into a ball and commanded him to sit as I walked away over the rise. I hurled the sock as far as I could down the slope into the thick cover and walked back over the brow to find Jack still steady. I sent him with a gesture in the rough direction of my throw and waited. He quartered for a minute or two then appeared over the brow carrying his prize and delivered the wet sock to my hand. He did the same twice more then, on the final time after a long weekend, he dropped the sock on the brow and trotted back to me without it. I'm not sure if he's been keeping a bit back for himself, or whether I've not been testing him enough....? Tonight, I've done similar. I lobbed his small dummy deep into the fenced-off 'wild' section of our park (it's not quite a syringe and shopping-trolley park). Jack sat steady as always, burst through the wire (not barbed) and returned a minute later with his retrieve. I remarked to the wife, that if Jack doesn't make a gun-dog, it won't be for Jack's failure, it will be because of mine. The wife says she's inclined to agree. | |
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Member Posts: 310 |
With the demise of September, my month of structured training around which this thread originated, has ended. I had set out to be a little more thorough, more analytical, more professional if you like in 3 areas of Jack's initial training and had been encouraged to do so by other similarly inexperienced gun-dog trainers who like me felt over-reliant on pure gut-instinct and subjective opinion. As a reminder, the three areas were - 1. Maintenance of Recall, 2. Sit and Stop to whistle and 3. Eliminate the 'short' retrieve habit Jack had apparently slipped into. Due to circumstances described previously my training will always be of the 'broken-walk' variety, but I resolved to be regular and consistent in each task. The results were as follows 1. In maintaining recall, Jack's monthly record was 100%. Provided RULE1 (see previous) remains unbroken, Jack's recall is perfect to his whistle. Not that I have measured distance obsessively but I have recorded 3 instances of recall from in excess of 120 paces in my local park. On the hills, the average distance would be much more like half of this distance at most. 2. Sit and Stop. Over the month, Jack's success-rate in sitting to his whistle was 87%. His success at the 'Stop' was 100%. though the actual number of repetitions here was low as the 'Sit'' was of course the first component required. Overall, the combined rate was 89%. The conclusion I have drawn from this is that as Eric Begbie, author of the Broadsheets (my source) would say, I have now TAUGHT my dog, I now need to TRAIN him to deliver every time. Jack has also been successful with a number of Sit/Stop/Recall combinations which is further proof, I believe. 3. The short retrieve. As Jack's hunting instinct has developed strongly, his love for retrieving his puppy-dummy had faded. He would be steady to the throw, go out with purpose but drop the dummy around 2/3rds back. This was not always the case however and he remained capable of and executed many 'perfect' simple retrieves. In this respect, the success rate in obtaining a full recall was 97% thanks in no small part to advice received here. Jack is a sensitive pup who was submissive as an infant. I feel I was too keen to step forward to encourage, congratulate and take his prize from him. By hiding my hands from him and walking backwards, receiving a 'full' return is now the minimum I obtain. At this point, I would beg to differ in the 'discussion' regarding steadiness/running-in. In no way was Jack's lack of performance down to him being held on the drop. He knows no different and always goes out with verve regardless. All the same I would welcome any comment from any of the more experienced handlers such as Neill who might wish to contribute in respect of any of the statistics I have mentioned above. Overall, I feel the month and therefore the more 'professional' style of training was a success. Next month, I can continue to work on the sit/stop combinations whilst 'teaching' the off-lead heel-work which follows next in Eric's book. I have already begun to prepare Jack for this by letting him drag his lead on the way back from to the car on number of occasions. As yet, he has not left my side. Equally, I have found that a local clay shoot is based much closer to home than I ever imagined and I will hope to use this to begin to accustom Jack to gunfire (the next step after that) though he has heard distant shots on the hills many times already. Finally, we have had a deluge over the weekend that would embarrass the golfers at Celtic Manor, who would be ashamed as to why their event was ever delayed. On the way up to Clent today on the A456 Noah I think, overtook me in a boat. The wife said we were mad to go out. I said something to the effect that my wax-jacket was drying out and needed some rain. Jack muttered something about the point in being a gun-dog if he was going to be forced to stay indoors. So out we went. The clouds were so low they completely covered the hills but once within them it was damp, but it wasn't even raining. Better still, there was not a soul about. With shafts of bright sun-light piercing the rolling mists, visibility came and went again within seconds. Reality checked me though, when I realised that for the second time since I began this thread I had forgotten Jack's whistle and training in the way I had intended had to be abandoned. I decided to focus on Jack's hunting and retrieving instead. Last weekend, I met a man on Walton Hill who had with him three female generations of chocolate cockers. The matriarch was the spit of Danderw Druid (a daughter) and her own daughter and grand-daughter almost equally so. The man had visited the Openshaws Rytex kennels and had also met the Clulee family. He worked his dogs every day. He gave me a small tip to improve Jack's retrieve still further and armed with a couple of dummies and the aforementioned sock (which is now an integral part of my kit) I decided to get to grips with the technique. On another recent thread 'Gavin' asked why we do what we do. I spent an hour and a half in the saturated mists which occasionally revealed the most vivid autumn colours you could possibly imagine and the most glorious of distant landscape. Meanwhile, my young dog scoured the soaked undergrowth until he was sodden to the bone- always keen, always with me, always under control. He sat steady when required and delivered his 'sock' time and again from unseen hides in the cover sitting quietly and still to have it taken from him. Later he did the same with his small dummy and finally delivered his large dummy standing beside me to complete his return. I don't know about anybody else, but I do what I do for days like these. | |
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Member Posts: 986 |
:oI'm deeply flattered to be called "experienced", Ollie is the only dog I've trained from scratch to date, though I hope to do more.
I must admit I've never even thought about what Ollie does in terms of statistics, but I guess if you want to keep them then a steady upward trend is what you need to look for. As a professional engineer I have enough of spreadsheets Monday to Friday!
Regarding steadiness, this takes time but once the stop whistle is mastered progress can be made. In the last few weeks I've reached the point with Ollie where he can be trotting along a few feet in front of me, or hunting, and I can lob a dummy or throw it along the ground past him and he does not chase it but sits down and awaits the command. It will be interesting to see how steady he is this coming Saturday though, it's his first day on my peg at the shoot I belong to.:o
Very very occasionally he still drops a dummy at a distance, almost always it's a sign of boredom with Ollie. He does not get away with it though, he gets sent back everytime and then when he brings it thats the end of the session. | |
--Every time I take my dog out for a lesson, he never fails to teach me something!!!!!!!Neill
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